tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post114227893188362104..comments2024-03-28T03:37:24.078-05:00Comments on Apikorsus Online: International Agunah Dayelfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1146451705774508032006-04-30T21:48:00.000-05:002006-04-30T21:48:00.000-05:00In theory, the situation for men is less problemat...In theory, the situation for men is less problematic, since a man can get a <I>heter me'ah rabbanim</I> to allow him to remarry. In practice, however, it's easy to see how the same sorts of political issues and power plays that victimize women can victimize men as well.elfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1146198587040613522006-04-27T23:29:00.000-05:002006-04-27T23:29:00.000-05:00Men can be agunos as well. My friend is trying for...Men can be agunos as well. My friend is trying for over a year to get divorced. His wife refuses to take a get. Her sister's husband is head of the bais din in baltimore and he has allowed her to ignore rulings of other batei din, and used his power to prevent her from being censured by the baltimore bais din.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142801329733051492006-03-19T15:48:00.000-05:002006-03-19T15:48:00.000-05:00Interesting. At my college we tried having a mome...Interesting. At my college we tried having a moment of silence in honor of agunot before ma'ariv. I guess that's like ka ta'anit dibur, but maybe shorter.elfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142732148323555362006-03-18T20:35:00.000-05:002006-03-18T20:35:00.000-05:00FYI: I heard about the Agunah day through the shul...FYI: I heard about the Agunah day through the shul where I daven (KOE). Before ma'ariv on Monday night, they had a ta'anit dibur to raise awareness. Unfortunately, I missed the entire thing (I barely made it for megillah reading, let alone before ma'ariv), but I thought it was an interesting concept.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142455148200253202006-03-15T15:39:00.000-05:002006-03-15T15:39:00.000-05:00I don't know enough halachic contract law to know ...I don't know enough halachic contract law to know whether that would be considered indeterminate. Then again, might one be able to make the same argument about the adjustment for inflation? <BR/><BR/>If it were, it would make a halachic business partnership agreement quite a bit more complicated.<BR/><BR/>Yes, it does make a lot more sense than what they've got in there now.elf's DHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03562294407695041239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142452625967086942006-03-15T14:57:00.000-05:002006-03-15T14:57:00.000-05:00On the practical end, couldn't it just be phrased ...<I>On the practical end, couldn't it just be phrased as a percentage of the husband's income or assets?</I><BR/><BR/>That would make more sense, wouldn't it?elfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142434998918385182006-03-15T10:03:00.000-05:002006-03-15T10:03:00.000-05:00In the original version, the actual sum (part VII)...<I>In the original version, the actual sum (part VII) was a blank space that had to be filled in. Now, it's a fixed sum. Either way can cause practical or halachic problems in the future, when the husband's assets might be different from what they are at the time teh marriage was transacted.</I><BR/><BR/>On the practical end, couldn't it just be phrased as a percentage of the husband's income or assets?fleurdelis28https://www.blogger.com/profile/02941451047389484323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142431146591100262006-03-15T08:59:00.000-05:002006-03-15T08:59:00.000-05:00elf wrote:The doucument does, however, allow the c...elf wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>The doucument does, however, allow the couple to decide to leave matters in the hands of religious courts. This option should never be chosen.</I><BR/><BR/>Just one more comment: The clause that puts all matters of divorce into a bet din is indeed optional. But, if you read the RCA material, they seem to be pushing it an attempt to socially engineer Jewish divorce out of civil courts. I'm not sure how much longer it will remain optional.<BR/><BR/><I>There are a few problems with this from the standpoint of both halakha and civil law</I><BR/><BR/>It's phrased in the positive. During the time the couple is married under Jewish law, the husband is obligated to support the wife with a certain amount of money. From a civil law perspective, it has never been tested in court.<BR/><BR/>No matter what, in any dispute involving a <I>get</I>, a bet din will have to get involved. The civil courts can't enforce religious obligations.<BR/><BR/>The 2003 (current) version of the RCA prenup is <A HREF="http://orthodoxcaucus.org/prenup/PNA_2003.pdf" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>In the original version, the actual sum (part VII) was a blank space that had to be filled in. Now, it's a fixed sum. Either way can cause practical or halachic problems in the future, when the husband's assets might be different from what they are at the time teh marriage was transacted.elf's DHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03562294407695041239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142430002941237512006-03-15T08:40:00.000-05:002006-03-15T08:40:00.000-05:00Thank you for your comments.The RCA prenup is a ci...Thank you for your comments.<BR/><BR/>The RCA prenup is a civil contract and is meant to be enforceable in civil court, so the woman is not totally dependent on the favor of the <I>bet din</I> (rabbinical court). The doucument does, however, allow the couple to decide to leave matters in the hands of religious courts. This option should <I>never</I> be chosen.<BR/><BR/>The role of the civil court is to force the man to pay a certain sum of money until a <I>get</I> is issued. There are a few problems with this from the standpoint of both <I>halakha</I> and civil law, but it is better than nothing. Issuance of the <I>get</I> itself is necessarily left in the hands of the <I>bet din</I> for reasons of church/state separation, and if the <I>bet din</I> does not uphold the woman's cause, it can certainly cause problems. However, this is true whether or not the RCA prenup is signed. There is no advantage to avoiding the prenup.<BR/><BR/>As far as I can tell, best solution to the <I>aguna</I> problem is <I>T'naim B'kiddushin</I>, which retroactively nullify the marriage if the husband refuses to grant a <I>get</I>. Unfortunately, this method is out of favor.<BR/><BR/>Does anyone know of any better approaches?elfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142428325499230882006-03-15T08:12:00.000-05:002006-03-15T08:12:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.elfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16271905313295544312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142299610333026472006-03-13T20:26:00.000-05:002006-03-13T20:26:00.000-05:00AnonymousThank you very much.Tell every women that...Anonymous<BR/>Thank you very much.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Tell every women that you know never never to sign the pre-nuptuals. The Rabbinical Council of America pre-nuptual agreement serves the man. Once in the Beth Din of America, the woman loses everything. Never let the women you know sign the document. Let them speak to a lawyer first.The Rabbis of the Beth Din will openly lie. If I gave details you would take the names off of the blog. But ask around first and never sign the document or have anything to do with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6388344.post-1142298899681428852006-03-13T20:14:00.000-05:002006-03-13T20:14:00.000-05:00The RCA Beth Din of America, the Modern Orthodox B...The RCA Beth Din of America, the Modern Orthodox Beth Din is the same way.<BR/>They make a women give away most of her <BR/>financial rights in order to recieve a get. Since according to the halakhah she is only entitled to the ketuvah.<BR/>They openly say that they do not hold from no-fault divorce and will asign blame, most of the time to the woman.<BR/>And if a woman wants to settle the financial in civil court they call her a rasha and she is at fault.<BR/>Beware!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com